Bill Kerr: It’s mid-2023, and a wave of layoffs threatens the tech sector’s modest recent gains in diversity. Underrepresented in both professional and leadership ranks, Black and Latinx workers are vulnerable to the staff cuts that target less-tenured and less-senior workers. These vulnerabilities build upon years of higher unemployment rates and lower college enrollment in STEM fields for minority workers. Meaningful progress in diversifying the tech workforce and addressing the racial wealth gap depends upon the availability of focused and affordable training.

Welcome to the Managing the Future of Work podcast from Harvard Business School. I’m your host, Bill Kerr. My guest today is Ayanna Lott-Pollard, Executive Director of Resilient Coders, a Boston-based coding boot camp that prepares people of color from low-income backgrounds for career-sustaining jobs. We’ll talk about the Resilient Coders mission, how it boosts participants’ technical and social acumen, and how it tailors course content. We’ll further explore how Resilient Coders helps participants balance the intensive training with their other commitments. And finally, we’ll discuss how the boot camp and its graduates came through Covid, and the potential future impact of tech technological trends, like artificial intelligence, and social trends, like environmental, social, and governance goals. Ayanna, welcome to the podcast.

Ayanna Lott-Pollard: Thank you, Bill. Thank you for having me.

Kerr: Ayanna, why don’t we begin with a little bit of your background and how you came to be the leader of Resilient Coders.

Lott-Pollard: I graduated from Temple University with a degree in journalism, broadcast journalism. I had an opportunity through one of my professors to work at the White House for a semester-long internship. When I graduated from Temple, I immersed myself in the world of advertising—working for clients such as University of Penn, working for HealthPartners, having McDonald’s as a client. And so I was able to quickly switch my hat from different industries to learn and to develop strategic plans for them, which helped me to merge into operations. So I’ve had a non-linear career. I’ve worked for nonprofits, I’ve worked in government, I’ve worked for a health system, and here I am today working for Resilient Coders. I was attracted to the organization because of the mission and economic resilience.

Kerr: That’s great. Why don’t we take a step and understand the basics of what Resilient Coders does, and then also what sets it apart as a boot camp?

Lott-Pollard: Sure. Our mission is to train people of color for high-growth careers as software engineers and connect them with jobs. We work primarily with folks from low-income communities in Boston and Philadelphia. We are working with young adults who are 18 to 30 years old, primarily. Some of them have a background in another industry and have had a passion or feel connected to tech in some way. And it’s our job to just get them plugged in to opportunities that will provide them with a high-growth career, high-growth salary. We believe in social justice through economic empowerment and the opportunity for meritocracy in tech.

Kerr: And how do you go about the recruitment and selection of the coders?

Lott-Pollard: We do a lot of advertising online, as well as word of mouth. Once a student has applied for the program, we invite them to a hackathon. A hackathon is a half day, on the spot, working with our alumni, working with our team, and they’re coding. They’re redeveloping a project, they’re developing a website, something that we can see that they are able to go in and understand what they would have to do on a day-to-day basis in the cohort. They have a final interview. We go through all the paperwork just to confirm that they are from an underserved community in Philadelphia or Boston, and then we get them plugged in. The program is a 20-week boot camp. While they’re going through the boot camp, they do receive a stipend.

Kerr: And tell us a little bit about the types of roles that they’re being trained for—software engineer, web developer, UX. Speak a little bit about that curriculum, but also what are the typical positions that the coders are being placed into.

Lott-Pollard: Sure. We have the junior software engineer, associate software engineer, software engineer apprentice, software development engineer apprentice, software developer, web developer, junior developers. Those are all the titles that our students or alumni have had. They work in computer tech, media, healthcare. We’ve worked with some really cool companies, like [video marketing firm] Wistia. Wayfair has been a partner. Audible has been a partner. We also have Independence Blue Cross in Philadelphia. So lots of organizations that are looking to hire top-level talent from our boot camp.

Kerr: Ayanna, you recently developed a partnership with Staples. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Lott-Pollard: We had a great opportunity to meet with the CHRO of Staples earlier this year. Came up to Boston, met with the C-suite, their managing director of diversity, equity, and inclusion. It was an awesome opportunity to talk about Resilient Coders, to share our mission, to talk about our values and the students and where they are now. And from that, they came to our demo day this year. They’re preparing to partner with us for the next cohort and hire for 2024.

Kerr: And do the employers come early in the process, or is it when the graduation day approaches, they get to meet the coders and pick them out? Tell us about how you’re placing them into Audible and into Wayfair and similar companies.

Lott-Pollard: The really cool part of our process is that we partner with organizations at a very early stage in the program. It starts with “Partner Night.” We invite our partners to come in to meet our students, talk about their organization. What is the mission? What are the drivers of the organization? What are their core values? And then we invite them to come back again for our mock behavioral interview, giving them feedback on the spot. They come back again for our mock technical interview night, where they’re doing some things on the whiteboard, they’re just talking, engaging back and forth, and they’re giving pointers to our students. And then, finally, they come to our demo day, with their capstone project, where students have developed a full-stack web application. And those companies who have been working with our students are now there to see what they’ve been able to accomplish over the course of the 18 weeks, because they still have two more weeks after demo day. So we’re allowing the employer to have a front-row seat to the development of the students so that they can see in real time the quality that they offer, the expertise that they offer, their vulnerability in the space of learning something new very often. And quite often, by the time we finish demo day, employers already know who they want to hire. And we’ve even had a couple of instances where, by the graduation, four or five or six of our students can’t attend graduation because they’re already working. So having that process where we’re working in collaboration with employers has been very beneficial to us, because they have some skin in the game as well.

Kerr: Those placement stories are awesome, and let’s continue with them. After somebody has gone and graduated from the program and taken a job with an employer, how does Resilient Coders stay involved with their future career? And then also, what are some things that employers do well—or do poorly—in terms of making the most of this talent opportunity?

Lott-Pollard: We have wraparound services. So, three months after the program, our alumni are still coming to weekly meetings with our team. They’re building their professional portfolio. We’re talking them through the coffee chats and the networking. They’re reporting out, encouraging one another. They’re also still learning. So they may graduate and say, “Hey, I understand JavaScript Node, I understand JavaScript React.” And those are two programming languages that they learn along the way. But then we have someone who may want to learn Python, or they may want to learn Ruby on Rails. It may be something else that we can learn and teach. With the expansion of AI, we’re talking to them about that. They’re learning different programs, Microsoft Azure. They’re really immersing themselves in the business, post-graduation, so that they can market themselves more effectively. Once our students are hired, we stay connected to the HR or whoever that business partner is to make sure that our students are doing well, that they’re growing. And it just creates a great partnership. And that employer is more amenable to coming back to say, “Hey, we hired Gabrielle. Gabrielle’s great. We’d love to hire someone else.” Because they’re in the community, and they receive that support from both the organization as well as our alumni population.

Kerr: And as you’re doing this training, to what degree is it focused, first and foremost—or exclusively—on development of skills, versus also obtaining industry certifications or things that can be then portable, perhaps, across multiple employers or have some extra recognition?

Lott-Pollard: The first thing that our engineering team, the first thing they teach our students is how to learn. We all come from different backgrounds. You may come from university. Some of our students have a high school diploma, some have a degree that’s not in the CS [computer science] industry. And so when you come from a background, you have to really say, okay, how do I learn? Is it auditory? How do I learn? That will position them to be wonderful software engineers, as well as when they step into that job, and that job says, “Hey, we don’t do JavaScript Node, we don’t do JavaScript React. This is the language they learn.” They can learn that language within a couple of weeks. So whether they’re a visual learner, auditory, they read, write, kinesthetic, whatever, they have the determination and the grit to go in those spaces and perform and do well, because they’ve been taught how to learn and how they learn.

Kerr: Continuing on that, you’ve already mentioned some of the important soft skills—mentoring, professional and social networking. How do you prepare coders for that part of their job, as well as for some of the hard skills?

Lott-Pollard: We have a team of EIRs—we call them “Experts In Residence”—as well as a team who works with them on those professional skills. So we’re helping them develop their LinkedIn profile. We’re helping them to refine their resumes and to create videos and elevator statements so that they understand what their purpose statement is. And if you have one minute to talk to an employer, how do you introduce yourself and give them that one-minute elevator speech without rambling on? Our staff will come in and talk to them about professional skills and how to sell their story, how to understand the value of who they are, how to market themselves in a very competitive environment. And so, once they get done with the program, they’re prepared to go into an organization and add value immediately. One of our students, he was a driver for Uber. He was a gig worker doing what he could do to earn income for him and his family. And he came through Resilient Coders, and now he’s a developer at Uber and is the president of their ERG and working to build that organization and provide great opportunities, not just for himself, but for the folks in his community who are working alongside with him.

Kerr: That’s great. Let’s take you to the beginning of a conversation with a potential client that’s coming in, a company that’s interested. What are some of the typical big questions that are on their minds? And then also, if there’s a typical sticking point or something that’s the hardest part for a potential employer to overcome to join the program?

Lott-Pollard: The first question they ask, Bill, is, “Can they code? Can they code? Can they code after 20 weeks? Are they going to add value to my team? How?” And for that reason, we invite them into the community so that they can see the students learn and watch them develop and grow. And we love to show them. Every boot camp isn’t equal. I’ve seen horror stories. I’ve read about ISAs—income sharing agreements—and boot camps that charge people an astronomical amount of money to go through the boot camp, and when they come out, they get a job in sales. They charge a student up to $15,000, $30,000, to go through the program. And once the student is hired, they have to pay back that debt. And if they get a job paying $25,000 a year, or if they get a job paying $100,000 a year, they still have to immediately pay back that debt, which just continues the debt that they may have from college or another debt. They can’t code. I’ve talked to employers who say, “Hey, Ayanna, we really want to hire, really want to be part of this, but I’ve had experiences where I’ve hired folks from boot camps, and I say, ‘Okay, go in and do A, B, and C in JavaScript,’ and the student will ask me, ‘What’s JavaScript?’” So it can be a little cumbersome for employers to sometimes believe that within the 20 weeks our students are able to come in and actually, on day one, work. Yes, they need assistance. Yes, they are still learning. But if you can teach it, they can learn it. They’re very advanced. And a part of our program, we have a redirect. A student may be in the program, they may be doing well, but they may not be grasping the material as quickly as someone else, and we’ll redirect them, which simply means we’re going to slow the learning process down for you so that you can learn at your pace. But we only graduate the folks that we know and we believe can come in on day one and shine in an environment that would make us proud, please the employer, and have the employer come back and say, “Hey, we want to hire more.”

Kerr: Given the focus on learning how to learn with the potential client, let’s say the client says, “I would really like to work with you on a bespoke program that will teach the coders to do these particular pieces.” Do you go down that path with the potential employer, or do you have more of a “we have a standard process, we run it, we help people learn how to learn, and then they can customize once they’re on the job with you”?

Lott-Pollard: What we’ve experienced thus far is the latter. We teach our students, they understand general object-oriented programming principles. They go on the job, and they’re able to shine. It would be lovely to have an organization come and say, “Hey, this is what we want our folks to learn.” That’s something we’re open to, but we just haven’t had the opportunity to employ that just yet.

Kerr: How many coders does a typical employer hire? Is it one, is it five, is it 10?

Lott-Pollard: We’ve had employers hire one, but then we’ve had employers come and say, “We want to hire four.”

Kerr: As you think about the surround supports that you provide to the students that are going to become the coders, tell us a bit more about what aspects of that are the most important things, the things that have really helped Resilient Coders be able to effect such significant change in the underserved populations?

Lott-Pollard: I think it’s community. We have close to 400 alumni. And what’s really helped us and served us well is that our alumni are committed. We are free. We are stipended. We’re not asking for anything back. But the outcome of this number of young adults in industry working as software engineers is, they naturally have an inclination to give back. And because they do, it strengthens our community. So when we have a new cohort come in, our alumni will surround them and provide them with the assistance in the help channel by coming to community hours, where they’re able to help a student who’s struggling with the same thing they may have been struggling with a few months ago. And so that helps. We were founded in 2014, so some of our alumni are now in positions to hire. Some of our alumni are now in positions to give back. So our community is what really drives us and helps us, and we’re very committed to just making sure we have a strong alumni community that empowers our students to do great things.

Kerr: As you think about employee turnover, my understanding is that Resilient Coders graduates typically have lower turnover rates than their peers at the hiring firms. And so I’d love for you to reflect, maybe both at the start and over time, how much of the employer drive for hiring coders is about something that’s rightfully related to social justice and diversity and inclusion, versus “this is a pipeline to some talent that I need and our company needs. And, moreover, the coders that come in stay with us longer.” So how does the social and economic mix add up inside the employers?

Lott-Pollard: It’s interesting. As I look at our data, our data between 2020 and 2022, the numbers were higher. We had more employers coming to us saying, “Hey, Resilient Coders aligns with our mission and our values, and we want to be responsible. We want to hire from more diverse populations.” And we had organizations coming to hire four, five, and committing to partner with us, and coming to our events, and donations were up. And now that we’re living more in a post-pandemic, where our economy is a little more fragile, it’s changed. So we have organizations now that, they’re not focused on diversity. They’re not hiring for diversity. And we don’t necessarily want people to hire for diversity. We want folks to come and hire our students because they’re good—not because they’re Black, not because they’re brown, not because they’re from low-income backgrounds. We want them to hire our students because they’re really good at what they do. They are phenomenal. They’re hard workers. They’re brilliant. I love to call them “budding, brilliant engineers.” I can tell you unequivocally that it has changed as far as organizations wanting to partner with Resilient Coders for multiple reasons.

Kerr: And you’ve earlier highlighted—especially as you talked about your alumni and them being in a position to be able to hire back and so forth—the importance of keeping the steady flow of the talent coming through the program and being placed inside the employers to effect the real long-term changes that are there.

Lott-Pollard: Yeah. We’re teaching more than technical skills. We’re presenting a path for economic resiliency. So we want to work with organizations that see the value in not just hiring folks because they’re Black and brown. But we can look at the economy, we look at the numbers, and statistics tell us that 1 million jobs will disappear by 2026. The bedrock is automation. A lot of jobs will be eliminated because they will succumb to automation. And that doesn’t even just mean AI. There are jobs out there that will just simply be eliminated. And the good news is that 13 million new jobs will be created in response to an emerging economy, in response to aging populations and all the new technology that we’re so excited about. Local employers need to be thinking about attracting entry-level tech workers that they can mold and that they can help define their organization and move the needle, creating a pipeline of viable, capable, and skilled technologists that can elevate and sustain the workforce for years to come. So, yeah, we’re going through some topsy-turvy, and things are a little wonky right now in our economy, but we have to continue to think about the future. And within Resilient Coders, we’re preparing our students for the future.

Kerr: Tell us along those lines a bit about the freelance project exercise and how it related to the job market conditions and some of the actions you’re taking currently live in 2023, given the tech industry positions, but this important drive.

Lott-Pollard: Yes, we were trying to just think about what do we do? How do we assist our students, and help them to keep their hope up, and help them to just maintain the vision that they have for their lives. We said, “Hey, let’s have a workshop, and let’s talk to our students again about just positioning themselves to be freelancers.” We call it “Hustle Week.” They have to secure a client. They have to have a signed contract, a paid contract, from a client. And it creates the mindset of entrepreneurism in our students. So they understand that they have a skill that is valuable, that they can employ, that will feed them and create gainful opportunities, positioning, so they’re becoming those businessmen and businesswomen and just making it work for them. Until an employer will hire them, they’ve hired themselves.

Kerr: I know it’s a different use of your framing, but “resilient” toward the job market conditions and full-time, versus gig opportunities and the like. One of the things we’re all experiencing in the post-pandemic world is the rise of remote and hybrid work, or at least some of it sticking around here. How does that affect the way Resilient Coders is going to position itself toward the future?

Lott-Pollard: It’s really interesting. Prior to the pandemic, we were in-person. We were in Cambridge, and our students would come to class on a daily basis at the CIC [Cambridge Innovation Center] in Cambridge. And on March 10, 2020, we had to quickly shift. And it was daunting to say, “Okay, our students can’t come.” And our Managing Director of Engineering, as well as a couple of other team members, just got together and said, “Okay, we need to get them computers. Let’s create a program. Let’s work together.” And so we’ve been fully remote since March of 2020, which allowed us to expand to Philadelphia, because all of our students, whether you’re in Boston, whether you’re in Philadelphia, they’re all in the same classroom. So remote work has been an opportunity for us to grow and expand and reach more students. And it’s also expanded an opportunity for employment, because if someone lives in Philadelphia, and they’re hiring for a remote position in Tennessee, then that’s an open door for them. The only caveat is that, when you’re a young junior software engineer, sometimes it’s really a remarkable opportunity to just be in the space with someone and to work side-by-side with your coworker. So that’s the dichotomy.

Kerr: As you look at your performance since 2014, what are the key things that you track and the analytics or the key takeaways that you generate from the time path that you’re working on?

Lott-Pollard: The most important is our graduation rate: how many students are able to make it through the program. And, actually, not just graduate; we also look at placement. And then we’re looking at how long are they on that job. Our agreement with them is that they will stay on that particular job that they’re hired for for one year. And what we find is that 90 percent of our students, once they’re hired, they stay on that job for more than a year. They’re loyal. They’re grateful for the opportunity. And they love being on a team. We’re looking at who we’re bringing in, what demographics they serve, what neighborhoods are they from. There’s so many different things we have to take a look at just to make sure that it’s an equitable opportunity for students.

Kerr: And we’ve touched on it, but I think it’d be great to hear out loud. What’s the typical salary bump that someone achieves by going through the program?

Lott-Pollard: In many respects, they’re able to triple their salaries. The average salary is $90,000 a year, but it is a range. So the salary can start at anywhere from $65,000 to $120,000 per year. So that’s life-sustaining, life-changing. It’s just an amazing opportunity to see these young adults who are capable. This isn’t charity in the respect of, “Oh, we’re just going to put unqualified people in a place to just help them out and close the racial wealth gap.” No. They’re able, they’re willing, and they’re extremely intelligent. And they go to these organizations—I just got a message today that one of our students who started with Audible a year ago is being promoted. So they add so much value to an organization. They’re meeting the needs of the organization as far as what their needs are on their development teams. The organization is meeting their needs by providing a high-growth opportunity. And then they’re able to make a difference in their family by creating a different landscape for an entire generation, for their children and their children’s children. So we’re doing so many things at one time with this work. And I hope you can hear my passion. I love that we’re able to impact communities that some would call “underserved.”

Kerr: Ayanna, with such a high-touch model, is there a natural upper limit as to how big a cohort can be or how big the throughput of Resilient Coders can be per year?

Lott-Pollard: Well, currently we have four Experts In Residence. They’re software engineers who have worked in industry for at least two years. And so we create a cohort based on 12 students per EIR—per Expert In Residence. We want to be able to have a person there to support our students.

Kerr: We have very important social governance trends, like ESG and also, even more broadly, diversity, equity, inclusion. And at times those have become quite politicized and polarized and so forth. How have you been able to navigate through those and think about the future of the placement of your talent?

Lott-Pollard: Only 3 percent of the folks in tech are people of color, are Black or brown. And it behooves us to look at those numbers and to look at the opportunities that are out there, because when you look at different technologies, the bias involved in developing that technology can impede the progress of an entire organization. “Does this technology work for this sector or group of people?” So diversity is an ethical responsibility, but it’s also a fiscal responsibility for the organization, for the bottom line.

Kerr: Paint for us and tell us a little bit about the things that are giving you that optimism. What are the tailwinds that are going to propel you forward for the next five, 10 years?

Lott-Pollard: The tailwinds are in industries that are ripe with opportunities in tech. We think about all the numbers and all the facts and figures that tell us that there are millions of jobs that are being developed right now in AI, with the production of these different languages that give our students opportunities. Employees can invest in just the requisite skills and experience of their population. And we’re doing that. We’re working with organizations, and we’re working with young adults and preparing them for those opportunities. We want to work with organizations that are out there and looking to be at the forefront of developing leaders for the next generation.

Kerr: Ayanna, this has been a very inspiring and thoughtful podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Lott-Pollard: Thank you for having me.

Kerr:We hope you enjoy the Managing the Future of Work podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe and rate the show wherever you get your podcasts. You can find out more about the Managing the Future of Work Project at our website hbs.edu/managingthefutureofwork. While you’re there, sign up for our newsletter.