Podcast
Podcast
- 11 May 2022
- Managing the Future of Work
Virtually present: Meta’s vision for the hybrid workplace
Bill Kerr: How do you spend your workday? If you’re like most knowledge workers, since 2020, you’ve experienced office life through a combination of in-person and virtual interactions. Productivity is up, but the consensus is mixed. You may not miss those commuting hours, but Zoom fatigue is taking its toll. Covid-19 has pushed organizations to build infrastructure for technology-mediated collaboration and communication. Companies are combining cloud-based services, in-house applications, augmented and virtual reality, and other tools. Businesses are wrestling with the questions of how to be productive, flexible, and equitable. And as the nature of work is changing, they’re defining new roles and metrics. What are the keys to getting this new hybridized workplace right? And what skills will managers and workers need to thrive?
Welcome to the Managing the Future of Work podcast from Harvard Business School. I’m your host, Bill Kerr. I’m joined today by Christine Trodella, head of B-to-B commercial sales at Reality Labs, which is part of Meta, Facebook’s parent company. Christine, who oversees the Workplace product, brings the perspectives of a longtime veteran of the company. She started in sales there in 2011. We’ll talk about the transition to a placeless or ubiquitous workplace and what that means for both white-collar and frontline workers. We’ll also discuss the Great Resignation and the future of talent hubs, like the Bay Area and Boston. Welcome to the podcast, Christine.
Christine Trodella: Thank you. I’m so happy to be here.
Kerr: Christine, maybe we can start with a bit about your background. And what was your path to becoming a senior leader at both Meta and Reality Labs?
Trodella: Yeah, well, I have been at Meta for over 10 years now, and I started—I think the company was less than 2,000 people. And so we were just getting our ads business off the ground. And then about five years ago, I moved over onto the Workplace team. Workplace is Meta’s communication and collaboration platform that we offer to businesses. We have some of the largest and biggest brands on the planet using the platform—folks like Walmart and Delta Airlines, Starbucks, Nestlé. And it’s been a really interesting journey to take with them over these past two years with the pandemic in terms of seeing how their companies have adapted to the remote work that the pandemic has forced, and then how they’re thinking about emerging now into this hybrid work world.
Kerr: Christine, obviously Workplace has a lot of different functionalities and technologies built into it, but maybe describe for us a few of the ones that are the most interesting ones you like to share with potential clients.
Trodella: We really saw Workplace adoption and engagement take off during the pandemic. And some of the most common things that we heard was just how dependent companies were on our live video. And this was a way for executives to connect with their entire company and employee base when everybody had gone remote. It was a way to share out information, keep the company connected, keep that continuity of community across an organization. It really helped to connect people when they were really at a time of high anxiety, given what the pandemic was doing. But they were also not able to all collect in an office space together. Some other things that we saw, a lot of usage of our Knowledge Library. It’s like a mobile intranet. It’s searchable, shareable, and personalized. And so for a lot of frontline workers, we saw them accessing this to get very important information on the go, wherever they were during the pandemic. And then we also just saw it as a key informational tool. It’s really a key tool for organizational communications leaders to get information out to everybody. One of my favorite stories is from the World Health Organization. The WHO was using Workplace to communicate with their own employees on the field that were—before they would even do press releases, they were communicating to them about what was happening and what was going on. So we just found it to be a hugely important tool, not only for Meta, ourselves, but for our customers during the pandemic.
Kerr: To what degree does the technology come and support the existing workplace practices and functions and processes that are there, versus try to bring in or make possible new types of processes and aspirations that may be?
Trodella: It’s a technology platform, and it enables seamless communication across disparate groups. The behaviors, though, that we see either from leaderships or managers, is what it takes to ultimately be committed to connecting everybody in an organization, making sure that they have access to information, that they’re being recognized, that they have the same opportunities regardless of where they are. This is the technology and tools that enable that type of commitment from leadership and the change management that’s required when you move into a hybrid workforce.
Kerr: Help me think about, as you’re looking toward the changing nature of work, what new skills and training do you think that companies need to have in place to navigate this landscape? And what’s the way you try to support the organizations in terms of acquiring these skills?
Trodella: If you talk to any CIO or CTO at any organization of any size, they will say the biggest challenge they have when they integrate new tools or platforms into their IT stack is that people don’t use them. They get no engagement. And that is really, really an issue. And largely this is because people don’t know how to use them. They don’t want to take the time to do the trainings or to upload new versions and then have to learn how to use those. That’s a really heavy lift for an organization, is just the training that’s required. It a real hurdle. The Workplace product has a very similar look and feel and functionality to Facebook. And given just our global reach on our family of apps, the functionality being so similar means that you can just put this in the hands of pretty much anybody who has a mobile device, and it’s highly intuitive and easy to use. There’s really no training involved.
Kerr: I mean, clearly the Facebook product is known by billions around the world. Are there generalized lessons that you take to new virtual reality technologies that you’re bringing into the workplace, or go back to the video feed as to what needs to be there for it to be open to everybody, to be accessible to everybody? What are some of those places where, as soon as you start to hear someone describe that, you’re like, “Oh, but that’s going to have the challenge that it may not get actually adopted inside the organization.”
Trodella: We are at this interesting inflection point now where hybrid work it is here, it is going to stay. I think predictions have said that we should maintain roughly the same amount of knowledge workers who are going to be remote as there were at the peak of the pandemic. And it’s going to be critical again to make sure that companies are able to engage with people regardless of where they are. I think one of the big things that managers in the future are going to have to really think about is the kind of the rubric of diversity, equity, inclusion is going to increase and expand to include proximity bias. Like, how do we make sure that our employees that are not going into an office, or maybe don’t have access to go into an office every day, have access to the same opportunities, the same level of recognition, and the same amount of information? And so, again, we’re looking for tools that can be accessible to all, be used by all, have availability to all. One of the things that will be really critical in a hybrid workforce is not only being able to connect with people and get information to them, but also to create this sense of presence. Our portal device—it’s a way to really create that sense that I’m with my team at any given time. And, of course, as we move more into a 3D world, where we think VR is going to be the next platform that supersedes the mobile platform today, that is all about creating that sense of presence and, again, really democratizing the opportunity for everyone regardless of where they are.
Kerr: Tell us a little bit also about Horizon Workrooms, which are another big part of this product suite.
Trodella: We have a couple of different experiences that we are offering through Reality Labs and through our VR offerings. And Horizon Workrooms is the one that is focused on enabling presence through work. And so we allow the opportunity to have these work experiences, these workrooms. They’re highly customizable. You don’t have to be on a VR headset to be able to use them. You can have people that are attending or accessing the experience through their Quest headsets, or you can access them through mobile device or through your desktop on a website. But it brings everybody together in this virtual setting—this deeper sense of presence than what we’re used to today, just through potentially the Zoom interface or through a kind of a 2D experience.
Kerr: Very, very interesting. As you go back to trying to make sure that this technology gets used in the workplace and for a client that’s adopting these technologies, what do you find has to be the case in terms of who owns the transition, who is trying to help with the implementation path? What’s the best way to make sure that this technology really lives up to its potential?
Trodella: The companies that we talk to are really struggling with this right now, because before the pandemic, we had the norms of people going into the office or not if they worked from home. Then the pandemic forced everyone to be remote. So it was the same experience for everyone. And now that we’re coming out of it, it really is this question that companies are wrestling with, like, “How do we do this? How do we adapt now to a hybrid workforce?” We know that people value autonomy, they value flexibility, and they talk with their feet. Hiring and retaining employees right now is a huge problem for companies of all different industries and shapes and sizes. So getting this right is really important. And again, this is before there are norms established. So we find that this is kind of an all-in. The C-suite is very involved. There’s no individual stakeholder that’s a part of this. This is, really, we see companies investing a lot in the employee experience—again, everything from the experience that somebody has when they apply for a job through to when they are 5, 10, 15 years tenured at an organization. Some companies are forming taskforces, digital innovation teams that are tasked with going out and looking at all the latest and greatest technology and thinking through how to integrate this into their organization. We’re seeing companies lean on large consulting companies to help them think through how they map their existing company values into a world that is hybrid. And we’ve also actually heard of an instance where there is a Chief of Metaverse at one company.
Kerr: Sounds like the C-suite just got a little bit larger with the new role.
Trodella: I think so.
Kerr: As you hear about companies grappling with this and thinking about the hybrid environment, do you have a sense of whether they’re prioritizing more productivity gains or more retention and employee experiences? Or is it maybe there’s a trend to that over time as it becomes more difficult to acquire talent, maybe the retention side become a little bit more prominent. What do you hear from the customers about that?
Trodella: Right now, I think the pandemic, it really did prove to a lot of companies and people in general that we can be productive at home. The younger workforce now really values a social commitment from the organization that they work for, they really value flexibility and autonomy. And so it’s really gone from a, “Hey, can our company be productive?” I think we have found across the board that has not been an issue, but rather, are we creating the right experience for our employees? Are we able to attract talent, and are we able to retain talent? And that’s, again, where we have seen a huge shift in the focus from an HR team that would traditionally be in charge of handing out benefits and making sure that people were enrolling on time, to one that is really empowered to make sure that the company is providing the best employee experience that they can for existing and prospective hires.
Kerr: Christine, think back on Meta’s experiences with remote and hybrid work and the customers you’ve worked with. What’s been your team’s approach to these challenging two years and also the return to office and where are you in that journey?
Trodella: Our initial thought was, “Okay, can we all be productive? Can we all work from home?” And that quickly resolved itself. What we then had to grapple with was, “Okay, how do we maintain our culture? How do we maintain community now that we’re all not together?” And that’s where a lot of our focus went—is how can we continue to feel present even when we’re not? And so we did a lot of work around that. It was everything through having leaders come and do weekly top-of-mind videos that we would broadcast out to our teams, to having Mark Zuckerberg, our CEO, he used to do live Q&As on a weekly basis out of our cafeteria that would be broadcast globally for all employees to watch, to doing them through our live technology that I mentioned before. And what’s interesting is, we actually found stronger viewership and engagement when he went live virtually during the pandemic than when he had them physically, that he would do every Thursday in our cafeteria in Menlo Park. And so it’s these practices that we’ve kind of kept into play now that we’re back and moving back into the office. He still does his Q&As now virtually. I’m still doing top-of-mind videos. I think the team really likes to see people in their home environment and get a sense for who they are personally and not just professionally. So it’s been really interesting to see both how Meta and our customers are continuing to use the tools that we used during the pandemic because we found that not only did they allow us to be productive and get our work done, but they were a core part of building and maintaining our community and cultures during a really difficult time.
Kerr: Continuing to use, but you also brought in some interesting next evolutions in terms of the technology, so that you kind of got back to the hybrid environment, where there are the events that are happening in person, but through the extra screens and stuff that have been added into the place, you’re trying to restore, maintain some of the benefits that were with the online version of it. Do you think that’s going to be a general trend across several technologies that we use in the workplace?
Trodella: I do. When we were all remote, we were all a screen on a video conference call. And it’s been interesting going back into the office and having some people on a meeting be still on a screen and then have some people be in a room. It creates a very interesting dynamic and one that I think, again, like you start this inequity in terms of who speaks, who has the voice, where the conversation kind of sits and resides. One thing that we’ve done and implemented—and it’s actually been really useful—is regardless of whether or not you are physically in a conference room at an office or in your home, everybody has their video on, so that everybody is a face on a screen. And that, really, again, kind of level sets and gives equity to everybody in the meeting.
Kerr: One of the places you hear the hardest to pull this off is around innovative activities or brainstorming-type activities. What would be kind of the reply for that? Is there a technology set that would let people be both in a room and outside and be able to do those tasks effectively?
Trodella: Horizon Workrooms creates this real sense of presence. Literally, if somebody is sitting to your left, you hear them through your left ear, you see the emotions, you can see expressions—the functionality that we are building into our Workrooms product to make sure that collaboration is seamless—things like digital whiteboards, the ability to integrate your laptop computer, and your keyboard so that you can take notes and then store those notes.
Kerr: You’ve recently been doing some polls of frontline workers. I’d love to hear a little bit more about for that part of the workforce. What’s your polling been revealing? And then how is that going to impact the next generation of products that you’re working on?
Trodella: Well, this is an employee population that we feel really strongly about. I mean, first of all, 80 percent of the global employee population is front line. So this is a really huge employee base across the globe. I think the pandemic, rightly so, really pointed out just how critical these workers are and how important it is to have empathy for them and understand what they’re doing and be able to get their feedback. I mean, they are the feet on the street. They are the ones that are seeing things in real time and have the most valuable feedback that they can hopefully channel back to a corporate setting. This is our third study that we have done. It’s our "Deskless Not Voiceless" campaign that we do. This year was interesting in that it was the first time that we actually interviewed the C-suite. The takeaway was that, while the pandemic did draw a lot of attention for the need to prioritize front line—and we heard overwhelmingly from the C-suite that they are going to prioritize the front line moving forward—we still are hearing that there’s a big disconnect, at least from the front line. [Forty-five percent] of them feel that they are not connected to the corporate headquarters. [Forty-five percent] of them planning on leaving either the frontline workforce altogether or going to look for another frontline job that either has more pay or better skill training, upskill training. I think the most telling to this was over 90 percent of the executives that we interviewed felt as though the front line trusted them and felt like they were being very open and transparent with the front line, where almost 75 percent of the front line did not feel that way. And so it sounds like there’s still a fair amount of work to bridge this divide. But again, I think we’re optimistic in that the C-suite is really focused on this and it does have it as a priority moving forward.
Kerr: That’s very consistent with the type of surveys that we’ve been conducting at Managing the Future of Work, where the person in the C-suite has usually a more optimistic view of how things are going through the organizations. As you go each layer down, you get closer to a very different perspective that exists from that. So this dovetails nicely into thinking about what’s been called the Great Resignation. I’d love to hear your interpretation of the labor market challenges right now and whether you’re thinking of it as a Covid-specific phenomenon, a longer-term trend. How are the organizations working in that spot?
Trodella: For the cohort of the frontline workers, this is a constraint. They are leaving their job. They are leaving their jobs for better pay. They are leaving their jobs because they don’t feel like they are valued, or they’re not getting the skill development that they need. And, in fact, over half of those that we interviewed for our “Deskless Not Voiceless” campaign said that they do plan in the next year to either leave the frontline workforce altogether and go find another job. So we do expect this to continue, at least with this population. Again, in terms of is this a temporary thing or long term, I think it’s a little bit of both. There certainly are some market dynamics right now that are creating kind of this pressure valve and the need to hire talent and retain that talent. But I also think we are entering into a new world with a very different generation that’s coming into the workforce again that does have different values. And companies are going to need to recognize those values and what that means and how they need to adapt to be able to hire and retain talent moving forward.
Kerr: Another place—and I’m particularly interested to hear your opinion around this—is whether or not talent hubs, talent clusters, are all gone. We had the peak, and now we’re well past the peak. New York City will never be the way it was. San Francisco, the Valley, will never be the way it was. What’s been your experience so far in terms of this new dynamic? And is the hype a little bit overblown on this, or is it something that you’re more concerned about?
Trodella: Well, again, this is where, if you look at the data, it sounds like it’s hype. The Census Bureau looked at the number of Americans that are moving within America, but that are moving between March 2020 and March 2021. And it was only 8 percent of Americans, which is the lowest number since they started taking the census in, I think, 1964 or something. So the data suggests that, no, people aren’t moving. However, they did acknowledge that in New York and San Francisco, this is not the case. But that said, when I look anecdotally at my own team, I have been amazed. I used to have a team in the Bay Area that was about 25 people. And a couple weeks ago, I was asked to go through the exercise of identifying everyone that would be coming back into our offices at the end of March, and I only had like four people because everybody had moved to different places. A lot of companies are thinking about two things when it comes to office space: Just reducing their overall footprint and looking at creating more of these hubs for more remote workers to come together. I think 75 percent of executives in the U.S. have said that they expect to decrease the size of their offices. And then over half of U.S. executives have said that they’re going to reconfigure their offices to have them be much smaller communal spaces. And that’s something that we are also doing at Meta as well, is we’re creating a lot more kind of community spaces to come when you come into the office. I’ve traveled a bit to some of our offices since we’ve come back into the office. I have found in places like London and New York, there is just a lot of people in the office. You can always tell by the lines at lunch in terms of how many people are there. And they have just been overrun. I think people have really wanted to come back into the office. And in those markets, they are very excited to be back, and they’re coming in on a frequent basis. Again, to the contrary, when I come into some of our offices in the Bay Area, it just feels like there’re less people there. And so we’re looking at how to establish norms around this.
Kerr: When you think about workplace and workforce transformation, what’s the biggest things you have on your mind, Christine, for the next five to 10 years? What are the key things you’re going to be looking at, and some of the ideas of how this may all shape out as we move toward this new future of work?
Trodella: This notion of proximity bias. Now that we’re going hybrid, how do we ensure equity for everybody, regardless of where they are? This is going to be the key thing, and it’s going to take—again, to our conversation today—it’s going to take a combination of tool adoption and manager and executive behaviors that really figure out what these norms are like and how to adapt. Again, we haven’t figure this out, but I think this is going to be the biggest thing, because this is how people are going to decide where they want to go work in the future and where they want to stay. I think the second big thing that we’re looking at and should expect to see some change around is office space. Like, what does this look like moving forward? We have of heard—again, not only from our own thinking around how to put together the most conducive space for bringing people together—a lot of companies right now are re-architecting this and have a lot of investment around,, “How do we create an experience where the office is a magnet and not a mandate? How do we make sure that people want to come here and come here when it’s right? And when they do, they have the best possible experience.” And then the third is—and this is something that we feel very strongly about—the next computing platform will be one that is a virtual one. And we have obviously invested quite a lot of both our engineering talent and just our capital in building out this next frontier. What is so important in a hybrid workforce is reestablishing that presence, making sure that people feel as though they are together, even when maybe geographically they aren’t. And so those are really the three things that we are thinking about, kind of observing, and both building for as we move forward.
Kerr: Great, thank you. Christine Trodella is the head of Workplace from Reality Labs at Meta. Thanks so much for joining us today.
Trodella: Thank you.
Kerr: We hope you enjoy the Managing the Future of Work podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe and rate the show wherever you get your podcasts. You can find out more about the Managing the Future of Work Project at our website hbs.edu/managingthefutureofwork. While you’re there, sign up for our newsletter.