Resources

Student internships:

• Nabig Chaudhry: Climate X
• Mitch Hirai: GLIN Impact Capital
• Kamya Jagadish: Los Angeles Cleantech Incubator (LACI)
• HBS BEI Blog Post: 2023 internships

Climate and business resources mentioned:

• Climate Tech VC
• New York Times Climate Forward newsletter
• Bloomberg City Lab
• Crunchbase
• Y Combinator startup accelerator

Guests

Climate Rising Host: Professor Mike Toffel, Faculty Chair, Business & Environment Initiative

Moderator/Panelists:

• Nabig Chaudhry, HBS MBA Class of 2024
• Mitch Hirai, HBS MBA Class of 2024
• Kamya Jagadish, HBS MBA/Harvard Kennedy School MPP Class of 2024

Transcript

Editor’s Note: The following was prepared by a machine algorithm, and may not perfectly reflect the audio file of the interview.

Mike Toffel:
This is Climate Rising, a podcast from Harvard Business School, and I'm your host Mike Toffel, a professor here at HBS. As part of a Back to School series of Climate Rising, we're talking with three current HBS students, Nabig Chaudry, Mitch Hirai and Kamya Jagadish, who spent their summers working in climate related internships and are interested in pursuing careers in climate and business after they graduate. They'll share where they go to stay on top of current climate trends and how their MBA experience is shaping how they approach working in the field. Here's my interview with HBS students Nabig Chaudry, Mitch Hirai and Kamya Jagadish.

Thank you all for joining us here on Climate Rising.

Nabig Chaudry:
It's great to be here.

Mitch Hirai:
Yeah, it's very exciting.

Kamya Jagadish:
Thanks so much for having us.

Mike Toffel:
Great. Well, Nabig, let's start with you. Can you give us a brief introduction? How did you get to business school and to HBS? A little bit of your backstory.

Nabig Chaudry:
I originally grew up in Missouri and then went to college also at Harvard where I studied sociology. I spent three years working in tech and data science, in a lot of different roles, both in San Francisco and New York. Around this time I think I was thinking more about what inspired me, what topics I even cared about, and I think I had kept returning to this idea of climate and nature being really foundational to my upbringing and just really passionate about a lot of stuff related in that field.

And I guess you could call it a little bit of an existential crisis at that moment. And so I decided to fully commit to working in climate and that led me back to graduate school. Actually, first at Berkeley where I studied energy and climate science for two years as part of a master's program. And then I think in order to really figure out how to bring business solutions to climate and really accelerate both the mitigation but also adaptation side, decided to come and get my MBA here at Harvard.

Mike Toffel:
Great, We share a Berkeley history. So you were in the Energy Resources?

Nabig Chaudry:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah, ERG. So I was in the Energy and Resources group.

Mike Toffel:
And I did my PhD there.

Nabig Chaudry:
Oh, really? Awesome.

Mike Toffel:
Yeah. Shared that transition from West coast to East coast. They have better weather.

Nabig Chaudry:
No, no, definitely.

Mike Toffel:
Mitch, tell us a little bit about your background and how you landed here.

Mitch Hirai:
I'm originally from Osaka, western part of Japan, and I stayed there until graduating from high school. But I moved to California to attend college, and I always had an interest in international development and sustainability. So in my undergrad I was in Kosovo Ekato for my internship, and that led me to pursue more studies on this area. So I went to New York to attend Columbia University's School of International Public Affairs.

Then I thought maybe I can pursue another career in public service, but at the same time I knew that it'll be important to get exposure to more industry. So I went back to Japan and I joined the Boston Consulting Group. I worked for them for about two years. Then I moved to Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, one of the biggest philanthropic organizations. And they established a Japan presence back in 2017. And I became a second employee up there. And I thought that it would be very important to further develop, not only the business acumen, but also leadership skills. So that is why I decided to pass through MBA at Harvard and then I'm here.

Mike Toffel:
Great. Wow. So quite a global career already where you come from Japan, you go to California, you spend time in Kosovo. Back to New York, Gates Foundation and now here. Wow. Okay. Fascinating. Kamya, tell us a little bit about your background.

Kamya Jagadish:
I grew up in Michigan and then I went to Yale for college. And while I was there, I think that's when I really realized how passionate I was about environmental problems. I studied environmental engineering and I also worked in the sustainability office on campus for all four years. I was really deep in that space. But actually an undergrad just didn't really find any jobs that I thought were really exciting to me in the environmental world. So I landed in tech and was working normal tech jobs for a few years, but was still really interested in climate issues as well as urban development. Obviously, tons of intersection between those two. So then I found myself at Lime, the scooter company, thinking a lot about these same things, of how do private companies solve these social issues, whether it's about transportation from an access point or from an environmental sustainability point.

And it just was really clear to me that both the public sector and the private sector are always involved, and we need to figure out ways to really make sure that we're aligning partnerships well and thinking about incentives well. So I worked in the federal government for a bit and then came to Harvard where I'm doing my Master's of Public Policy at the Kennedy School, as well as my MBA. And I really wanted to do both because I felt like I really needed to understand how do I leverage policy so that we can work better with these private companies to solve climate issues, as well as urban sustainability issues. But then clearly, private companies are so often actually providing the solutions themselves. So that's why I wanted to get the business school degree as well.

Mike Toffel:
Great. Let's just keep going with you, Kamya. What you were thinking about for internships this past summer and where you ended up?

Kamya Jagadish:
I have been really interested in the world of economic development over the past few years. So how do city governments or state governments think about job creation and bringing industries in? And obviously with the climate transition, there's a huge focus now on the green workforce and all of the thousands of jobs that are going to be created there. So I knew I really wanted to do something in that space. So I started my search looking at everything from what our community college is doing, to foundations, to startups. And through that search and through talking to people, I found this organization called the Los Angeles Cleantech Incubator, also known as LACI. And they have this really crosscutting mission, where they're trying to create an inclusive green workforce. And they do that through the incubation of cleantech companies, but also workforce development programs and some policy advocacy. And I really loved that it cut across all of the sectors, which was obviously what I was trying to do too. So I was really attracted to that mission and organizational focus.

Mike Toffel:
And what was your job there?

Kamya Jagadish:
My main project was basically leading a program related to zero emissions delivery. So in SoCal itself, there are a few different pilots for trying to push delivery companies to adopt more zero emission solutions. And so there are a couple different ones. One, in terms of last mile of transportation, so the last mile of where packages and goods might be delivered in Santa Monica. And then there was also a pilot in the city of Los Angeles itself, technically separate than Santa Monica City, in terms of first mile transportation. So how do we get trucks to actually transition to clean transportation options? I was leading a program to help cities think about how do we actually innovate in the zero emissions delivery space and build partnerships with different private companies that are smaller. So not necessarily looking at the Amazons and the FedExs right away, but looking at small startup solutions that can provide solutions to local CR emissions delivery transportation issues.

Mike Toffel:
So was it a matchmaking process or an incentives program? What are the types of tools that they used?

Kamya Jagadish:
Yeah, great question. It was a little bit more program management. So it was saying basically LACI has done a really good job of building this innovation culture in LA and the surrounding areas, and helping match startups to city governments and thinking about the workforce components as well, obviously. And so we were reaching out to different cities to say, "We can help you as you try to build out the capabilities of your city government to work with startups in your city."

So it was a lot of advice and program creation and thinking through what are panels we want to put on, how do we help them get from start to finish of running a full zero emissions delivery pilot within their city. And I would say the other thing is that we're obviously just serving as an extra resource, and as we know, a lot of governments are really under-resourced, so it's hard to actually build in the capacity to do these kinds of things. And so LACI was really just saying, "Is there a way that we can do this more at the national level and provide the expertise that we've built in this space?"

Mike Toffel:
Got it. Super interesting. So really trying to scale this up across the country.

Kamya Jagadish:
Yeah.

Mike Toffel:
Great. Mitch, how about yourself? What were you looking for in a summer internship, and then where did you end up?

Mitch Hirai:
I have been wondering how I can combine my past background. So one from a strategy consulting and another from philanthropy. So I was trying to land in some position at the intersection between social impact and business. And through the introduction from one of the HBS professors here, I landed in venture capital called GLIN, G-L-I-N, Impact Capital, founded by a group of HBS alumni in Japan. And then GLIN, they're focusing on, how do I say, social impact/ESG Environment and Society of Governance type of investments with their expertise in venture capital. So they are supporting startups in climate tech and meta tech and edu tech and fin tech. They were trying to expand their portfolio, not only in Japan but also in the states. And so I was assigned to source these startups and also put some impact checks, so that we can know which startups are truly doing amazing work in terms of climate change response and other fields. So yeah, it was very amazing for me to get exposed to so many startups in the States in this area of climate response and other green tech.

Mike Toffel:
So you were sort of leveraging your background in Japan and your language skills, no doubt, with your contextual knowledge of the US and trying to figure out which projects to actually think about investing in and doing some due diligence. Is that a good summary?

Mitch Hirai:
Yes.

Mike Toffel:
So when you were thinking about your opportunities, since you've worked all over the world, what led you to go back to Japan for the summer?

Mitch Hirai:
So I thought it would be more advantageous for me and also for the team to leverage the network that I built over my work at the Gates Foundation and also at the BCG. And if I can be a bridge between Japan and other parts of the world in this particular area, I thought I would provide more value to it, so that's why.

Mike Toffel:
Got it. Terrific. All right, Nabig, we're up to you. So tell us a little bit again about what you were thinking about for internships and where you ended up.

Nabig Chaudry:
Yeah, I think I actually share a lot of similarities as Kamya and Mitch. I think in terms of really trying to bring all of these experiences together and have this really impactful internship, that combines all of the different skill sets that I've picked up through the years. At Berkeley, I worked at National Energy Labs at some energy startups and did a lot of work with corporate sustainability teams. And a lot of that work was really centered on this idea of, "How can you use tech and data science to really drive forward a lot of efforts that are taking place in climate right now?"

And so I think I really wanted to work for a startup that really had tech and a data product at its focus. Because that's also what my background is in. And I think it was also provided the best ability for me to really also make an impact over the summer. And so I was looking at startups working in the data science or climate data space, and also was a little bit interested in what was happening actually across the pond in Europe, just because the European market is seeing some really cool regulatory work that's driving forward a lot of innovation. And I thought that the US would eventually get there, but right now Europe is just way ahead in terms of what that regulation is allowing for and what sort of innovations and startups exist in that space.

Mike Toffel:
So yeah, you're in a course that I lead. We're going to go to Denmark and the Netherlands to really see the clean tech revolution and energy transition in practice in January. And so we will see many ways in which they're ahead of the US, so I look forward to traveling there with you and the 40 other students that are in the course.

Nabig Chaudry:
Yeah, I'm very excited to return.

Mike Toffel:
Great. So as you return to campus and look around, and I'm sure you're debriefing with your classmates about how they spent their summer, I wonder if there's thoughts you have of summer internships that you've heard from your classmates that maybe you hadn't even thought of, but sounded like a really cool opportunity.

Nabig Chaudry:
I have one that maybe is related. So I guess a little more context. I was based in London over the summer, specifically at Climate X, which is basically a climate risk startup that produces software that allows users, mostly financial institutions, to be able to assess their really location specific asset vulnerabilities. So what is the impact of climate change, not only today but into the future for a lot of these physical assets, whether those are buildings or structures. And so I think in that space as well, I had a few other colleagues also from HBS who are working in similar tech driven climate startups. And so one of them was actually with Sylvera, which was really exploring this idea of carbon markets and carbon credits. Which is a space that I don't know that much about. And I think just hearing about his experiences and what they're doing in terms of using remote sensing and satellite data was something that was super intriguing and not necessarily a connection I'd made before for that space.

Mike Toffel:
Super interesting.

I wonder if there's advice you can give folks who are thinking about internship pursuits, whether they're undergraduate students... One of my sons is a junior in college thinking about internships. Of course your classmates, your first year classmates in MBA programs are all right now thinking about internships. What's some advice that you've received or have thought about that you can pass along to them and trying to map the terrain and figure out what the options are? So Nabig, do you want to start?

Nabig Chaudry:
Wow. So much maybe I would tell my younger self. people had always told me, but I don't think I had quite internalized it, but this idea that you can reach out to anyone and just because there's not an internship posting or something that's maybe necessarily readily available online, doesn't mean that there's not an opportunity there. And so I actually think a lot of my internships are, especially with these startups which are growing very fast, there's a lot of opportunity, but they're not necessarily thinking about taking on interns. I just cold emailed them. So with Climate X in particular, I had just actually sent an email to the CEO and was like, "This startup sounds really cool, it really matches my background. I would love to contribute in any way I can this summer. Here's some ideas I'm thinking about that I think could be impactful to you, but open to hearing whatever you think."

And I was actually really surprised he ended up getting back to me and then connected me to the chief product officer and then we had another couple conversations and then the interview process started and it was a role that wasn't necessarily readily open or available, but I think because I had reached out and there was a good fit, it was just an opportunity that created itself. And so I guess that would be my biggest piece of advice is to not be shy about reaching out and creating those opportunities for yourself and also to not be shy about sending follow-up emails.

So I think actually for a lot of my responses, I didn't get a response back until maybe the third follow-up email. And it's not that people don't want to respond, I think everyone was very open to having a conversation or listening. It was just, people are busy and there's a lot of emails coming in. So hopefully just catching them at a time where they can look over your profile and be of support or provide some guidance in terms of whether there are opportunities in this space or not.

Mike Toffel:
Yeah. Super. All right, Mitch, how about yourself?

Mitch Hirai:
I would say try to take advantage of the resources that are available, identify as much as possible. And from the perspective of international students, when I first came to HBS, it was very difficult to find key players in this space in the states or outside of the States. So I asked many of my friends who have expertise in the field of my interest or I asked many professors who teach relevant courses. And then I found GLIN Capital through the introduction by one of the HBS professors, as I mentioned. And it was very helpful because even Japanese startups or Japanese venture capital, without proper introduction, I wouldn't be able to find out, or it would be a little bit difficult to reach out to founding members. So I think network and trying to take advantage of the resources available. And also, if you want to reach out to the professor, if you are taking their courses, I guess you should do well. So I think that's more an important component as well.

Mike Toffel:
Right. Interesting. So I think a lot of people when they think about networking, they feel it's a little bit uncomfortable because you're looking for a job, but sometimes you're networking just to understand who the players are and who might know who the players are.

Nabig Chaudry:
Exactly.

Mike Toffel:
So you're just trying to tap into their knowledge base, which is an easy yes for a lot of faculty or classmates to provide. I think that's a really important distinction between the fear or loathing folks have about networking if it's direct job asks, versus this background research that you described.

Mitch Hirai:
Yes.

Mike Toffel:
Great. Kamya?

Kamya Jagadish:
Yeah, I really want to plus one to Nabig’s comment, because I really do think that so much of what's happening and what's super interesting in this space is not necessarily happening at huge companies that might recruit through traditional channels. And I also just messaged the CEO of LACI on LinkedIn and that was what led to conversations and getting the internships. So I think definitely if there's no job posted, you should still try reaching out and even just having a conversation to Mitch's point and seeing who they think is doing other interesting work and really treating every opportunity to talk to someone as an opportunity to learn about other interesting problems or interesting companies or people. So that's my first point. And then the other, I think as I was saying in my intro, I was really interested in the space in college, but I struggled to find things that really struck my interest area.

And I think maybe because I was in environmental engineering, it felt like the only career paths were going to be an engineer in an engineering firm or going into academia. And neither of those sounded right to me. And so I think that if I could give myself advice in college, it would've been to spend more time looking at maybe people who are alumni of my school, and not necessarily putting in specifically a job or a company, which I feel like is very often the way that alumni searching happens. But actually instead just saying, "Oh, people who had my major, what did they go on to do?" Because I think with now hindsight, the other people who are in my major, were doing such a broad range of things. It's not like we're all professional engineers or in academia at this point. And so I think really just tapping into that network and seeing where people who maybe seemed like you in college, where they are now and can be a really great jumping off point.

Mike Toffel:
Yeah, it's super interesting. Any other reflections on job hunting tips for folks?

Mitch Hirai:
There are so many centers on business and environment or there is institute of a social enterprise and a business and government. I think if I reach out to these resources, maybe they enlighten me, maybe I could expand my horizon as well, so that I can increase a number of potential target companies that I can reach out to.

Mike Toffel:
And I guess a broader version of that idea is, I think a lot of students think about the career opportunities coming from the career offices, and not necessarily making the connection that, "Oh, some of these workshops or conferences or seminars..." Will give you exposure to industries or players in those industries that can be expansive, not only from an intellectual perspective, which is the point usually of those seminars and workshops, but also just broadening your awareness of who's out there and "Oh, maybe that's a job I'd never heard of that might be interesting to me." So institutes, seminars, yeah, the extracurricular piece blends with the curricular, with the idea of thinking about those from a career perspective.

Mitch Hirai:
Yes.

Mike Toffel:
Great.

Nabig Chaudry:
I would actually double click what Kamya had said before in terms of just how many opportunities there are out there. I don't think I necessarily, even today, I don't think I really grasp how much climate has touched every single space. And will continue to touch every single space. If you're interested in fashion, there's opportunities that unify that. If you're interested in industrials, there's opportunities that unify that connection with climate. And I think there's so many resources out there and there's so many, especially on the startup side, as Kamya was saying, there's so many companies that are just coming out now that are doing work at these really cool and really fascinating intersections, and there's so much funding going in.

There's so much of a culture. And I almost think everyone working in climate shares this passion for really driving forward this greater good of trying to decarbonize, or get the planet adapted and ready for whatever we're going to face or are facing. And so I would say, if you're thinking about climate and you're not sure how to combine your interests that might exist, I would say there's definitely opportunities that are going to exist. And if they don't, I think they will, or maybe that's an opportunity for that person or whoever to create it. So I don't think I really recognize the extent to which we really live in a world where there are ample and really exciting climate opportunities available.

Mike Toffel:
So how do you keep track of this? What are the news sources or databases that you use to be your inbound filter?

Nabig Chaudry:
Yeah, it's a good question. I think there's more and more that are coming out even on a weekly basis. I think my go-to for anyone who's interested in climate tech is really Climate Tech VC. So CTVC I feel like offers a really good grasp of just getting a lot of primers on really basic climate information and how different industries are decarbonizing. I think from a knowledge base, I think, New York Times offers a really good Climate Forward newsletter, which is really good just to keep a pulse on the industry and how regulations are changing the space that exists. And then I would say another thing might be actually just looking at climate specific job boards. I think some of those are coming out more often, and I think you can also get an idea of which sort of industries and spaces are growing really quickly there as well. I'm curious actually, what maybe Kamya has to say, given I feel like you worked at an incubator, so might have more insight actually into how to find those opportunities or spaces.

Kamya Jagadish:
Honestly, I think that I don't have specific sources that I consistently read. I feel like there's so many new sources that are coming up all the time. So it's a lot of bouncing between different places. And I think the other thing that being at an incubator taught me is what Nabig said, there's so many different industries that are being touched by climate that there's almost no one source that I found that knows how to report on all of them. So very often it would be me going to Google saying, "Okay, well, how is climate touching this industry that I didn't think about before?" But now there's a company I've heard of that is looking for funding or wants to be incubated.

And so I think it's been honestly quite piecemeal in terms of how I'm building those sources. I actually rely a lot on Twitter or I guess X, to get a lot of news too. I came at Climate more from a city adaptability focus. And so a lot of the places I follow have to do with city related sustainability news. And I actually think that that's another way to think about what are the biggest climate issues touching, maybe the intersection you're interested in, is following things about that intersection and seeing which climate topics pop up. So for me, I follow a lot of things like City Lab. And honestly maybe at this point roughly half of their articles have to do with the climate. So it's interesting to see how that has increased over time as well.

Mike Toffel:
Yeah, it's fascinating. Mitch, how about yourself in the impact capital or finance domain that you're working in? What are the resources that you use to try and keep pace of what's going on?

Mitch Hirai:
We always use basic resources like Crunchbase and also Y Combinator other accelerator programs. They provide a list of startups that are doing many social impactful or sustainability related businesses as well. And also just by networking with other venture capitals across the regions, not only in the States but in Singapore and other, in London, et cetera, so that they can provide a list of their investment targets.

Mike Toffel:
Got it. Great. And we'll put links to these resources on the show notes so that those who are interested in pursuing this will actually be able to find them easily. So let me ask you a somewhat self-serving question. So as an instructor at a business school and a big fan of all the directions that you guys are exploring, I think a lot of folks have a question mark about whether business school is the right use of time and resources. It's two years, it's a lot of money, it's a pause in your career. And I wonder if you can reflect on that question about how are the management skills that you're learning at business schools helping you navigate these spaces that you're going to? If you have any specific examples that would be useful about how is business school preparing you for these roles that you're looking to take? And in doing so, talk a little bit about the future directions you're thinking about. Kamya, do you want to get us started?

Kamya Jagadish:
Sure. So I think that the thing that comes to mind first for me is just the importance of being able to storytell and communicate effectively. Which I think is something that, not only is something you learn formally, maybe in a marketing class or something like that in business school, but also just every day in the classroom. And just being able to succinctly get a point across and convince people of your idea is something that I feel like I really get to exercise genuinely every day here at HBS. And I think it's really important and was really demonstrated to me at my summer internship where I was talking with foundations to get them to fund our program. And so I needed to really make sure I was storytelling the right way for them.

And then I was also talking to city governments to get them to partner with us. And so I needed to figure out what's the right way to tell a story and think about what motivates different city government partners. And that's not always the same story between the funders and the city government. And then when I was talking to startups, it was again, a totally different story that I was trying to communicate to them. And so I think really understanding the complex stakeholder dynamic relationships, what motivates different parties, how do you communicate with them, are all things that we're practicing all the time in business school, while we're reading these different cases of different stories. And so I think that that was really apparent to me through my summer internship and I'm sure will be a really beneficial skill to have practiced when I go out into full-time world as well.

Mitch Hirai:
And what's next for you, Kamya? Where are you looking to go into full-time world?

Kamya Jagadish:
I'm still exploring. I think that I really am interested in climate and urban job creation, urban industry making. And so there's a lot of angles that I could go into that with, whether that's from the nonprofit angle, working for workforce development organizations or working in city government itself. Or potentially actually right now I'm thinking about going back into the tech startup world for startups that are approaching these types of topics and thinking about it from new angles. What exactly that startup is yet I haven't found, but that's what I'm hoping to do over the next six or so months.

Mike Toffel:
Great, thanks. Mitch, how about you?

Mitch Hirai:
Yes, I would say I totally echo what Kamya said on a stakeholder analysis. For instance, now every class we are exposed to different industries and also different organizations across government, nonprofit and businesses. And if you want to become a manager or upper level in vertical organization, regardless of the industry, that skill and also the skill to identify who we should communicate and then who we should influence, will be very important.

And also just surrounded by many students with different interests always inspires me. And now I am thinking about launching my own venture to address a talent gap in social impact and ESG spaces in Japan. And I thought about this idea because I was surrounded by many HBS friends who are also thinking about their own venture. I think if I just stay in organizations as an employee, it would be impossible for me, and to have more courage to think about this venture idea of my own. So yes, I think my days on HBS for two years would be worthwhile.

Mike Toffel:
Great. How about you, Nabig?

Nabig Chaudry:
Yeah, I mean, I feel like Kamya and Mitch, really just want to echo all the stuff that they said. I think for me, maybe I'll split it into two parts. I think one is just a personal development piece, which I think has actually been so incredible here and I think feeds into everything we do professionally, personally. And so I feel like being at HBS and being surrounded by such a breadth of people and individuals and being in this classroom setting where you are learning all these different things, I think has actually pushed me to be almost a better person and have a better understanding of self and my own relation to the world. Which I think has also fed back into the aspirations and climate and work itself. I think the second piece I was going to say is, I'm coming from a science background, and so I think part of me, especially at Berkeley, was surrounded with a lot of scientists who are very brilliant.

I think there's a lot of really cool ideas and research happening, but there is this inability or this struggle to figure out how to make products, or make research or make any work being done there really resonate with the larger populace. And also be able to create really impactful work. And so I think the MBA just gives you an opportunity to really bridge that gap of being able to be like, for me, "How do you take science and really turn it into something really actionable that can really support individuals, policy makers, business people, in terms of really making decisions and really incorporating climate into their every day?" And so I think the summer internship was a really good example of that, of working in a really scientific space of climate models, climate data, climate science, and being able to bring that to light for the clients that we were serving and being able to get them to start thinking about climate in their everyday operations. So I would say, yeah, those are probably the two big things I feel like I've gotten from the MBA.

Mike Toffel:
Great. Yeah, I think when I pursued my MBA a little while ago, it was also to understand the different functions, understand their language, understand their incentives. So as you're trying to make change in organizations, you can't be an effective persuader if you don't really understand all the players and what their potential sources of resistance are, based on the incentives that they've been provided. And I think the multidisciplinary approach that all MBA programs have in their first year, give you that language of, "What is the CFO going to say? What's the COO going to say? What's the Chief Marketing Officer going to say," As you pitch your idea that you think is fantastic. And so it helps reshape a little bit your perspectives, and it helps inform you about what information you better get before you start pitching this around because you just know it's going to fall flat if you haven't done that type of homework.

So I think that also, I'm hearing a little bit of that in your answers as well. That was certainly the case for me. Let me turn to what we ask all of our guests as a final question, which is just general advice. You've given a lot of helpful advice on particular tips and tricks for internships, and you've talked a little bit about the value of MBA programs for yourselves. Our listeners are folks who are interested in business and climate change, maybe in one role now, thinking about other roles, or maybe thinking about getting into this space. And so just general thoughts that you might have for folks who are thinking about career exploration or career switching. Any thoughts you might care to share? Nabig, do you want to start with you?

Nabig Chaudry:
So I think for me it would be that one, I would observe where your energies are coming from. What articles do you feel energized when you read them? What spaces do you feel like you keep coming back to? I think for me, it was always nature and environment and climate were spaces that kept drawing me and were really consistent in my life for a really long time. And so I feel like there aren't actually, again, for me, weren't that many consistent threads that existed throughout my entire life, except for this sort of environment theme. And so I think connecting to that and realizing that this was always something that was important to me, I think really helped me figure out that that was a space I wanted to impact. I think the other thing I was going to say is I think I was really nervous.

Because I had never formally studied it. It had all been a very personal thing before I had what I called my existential crisis at the moment and decided to fully pursue it. I didn't know if I knew as much as everyone else and wasn't sure how to even catch up on the breadth of work and knowledge that existed out there. But I think the climate community is one that's very supportive and very welcoming. And I think everyone there is working towards a really common purpose and cause and is really welcome to having as many people involved as possible. And there's so many resources out there.

I don't think you need to, if you don't want to go to grad school, to learn it. I think there's also so many online learning opportunities and books and things that are coming out that give you the ability to catch up and figure out where you want to make the impact in this space... Sorry, I guess maybe one more thing. I think there's few places where you can have impact, make a good living, and do really meaningful work. And I think climate is actually one of the only few spaces that currently exists in our day and time that lets us do that. So make the leap. It's a great place to be.

Mike Toffel:
Super. Mitch, how about yourself? What are your thoughts?

Mitch Hirai:
One thing I can add is that now no businesses, no organizations can escape from climate change. All of the organizations have to plan what they can do in response to climate change. So maybe for instance, I was from the healthcare because the Gates Foundation was focusing on healthcare, but now they are also looking into how they can make an interference in response to climate change, because there's an interconnection between diseases and climate change. And I think that can be applied to so many industries, even fashion or even other manufacturing or even financial institutions. Now, all of the organizations, regardless of the industry, they're working on climate change. So I think it's important to be open-minded, don't restrict yourself into a specific field. I think now climate change is relevant to any industry.

Mike Toffel:
Certainly for better or worse, climate change is coming to an industry near you, that's for sure. Kamya?

Kamya Jagadish:
Yeah, I really think Mitch and Nabig did a great job covering a lot of the advice that I was going to give too. I think that one thing I would add is just that so much of what's happening in the climate space is new. And so while there are obviously experts that know a lot more about a lot of things than you do, things are still changing so much. And so to Nabig's point, you're not too late to get into this space. But even beyond that, I think that everyone should recognize how much their opinion can matter. Especially, let's say your company is thinking about climate for the first time and you care a lot about it. If you're pushing things forward and thinking about how your company might think about a sustainability strategy, if you want to do it, your opinions will be really impactful there because it's not like there is a recipe that always works, otherwise we would've maybe made more progress at this point already.

And so to that line, also I would say, beyond just clicking on the articles that seem interesting to you and understanding what in the climate space you're naturally being attracted to, which is what Nabig was saying, I would also think about writing more and just thinking about how do you form your own opinions. Since so much of this is changing and so much of this, there's no set guidelines or rules around yet. If you're reading an article and you have a thought, maybe write it down and flush out your own idea around it. I think it'll help you be an even more impactful climate activist in your career moving forward.

Mike Toffel:
Great. Yeah, Mitch.

Mitch Hirai:
Yes. And also I wanted to add one thing. It's very fun and inspiring to work with colleagues who truly care about humanity and us. So I think I really hope that so many people can really transition their career into this space.

Mike Toffel:
Great. Well, I think we'll close it there. And first of all, let me just thank each of you for joining us on Climate Rising. And it's been, I think, a great conversation. There are many reasons I love teaching at HBS, and the number one reason is the fantastic students that we attract and who choose to come here. And I hope that our listeners have gotten a little bit of a taste of just the remarkable students that we bring to our campus. So Nabig, Mitch, Kamya, thank you so much for joining us on Climate Rising.

Kamya Jagadish:
Thank you so much for having us.

Mitch Hirai:
Thank you.

Nabig Chaudry:
Thank you.

Mike Toffel:
That was my interview with HBS MBA students, Nabig Chaudry, Mitch Hirai and Kamya Jagadish.