Transcript

I finished up my MBA in -- I don't know whether it was January or February of '47.  And I decided I wanted to -- well, I've got to go back, though.  Something happened in the summer of '46 that was, in terms of my own career, quite important. . . .

I decided I wanted to get a little experience in factories, so I went down and just applied to a US employment office as a returning Navy veteran for a job. And they got me connected with Chevrolet, and I went over there, and went to work as a -- on the floor of the Chevrolet gear and axle plant in the middle of Detroit.  And lived in the Y.  It was just a summer job, and -- but it was an interesting experience.  I really got a feel for, you know, what it's like on an assembly line.  The traditional automobile assembly line. . . .

Anyway, then but the other thing that happened that summer, I was exploring how I was going to proceed on my education, with my idea of understanding of human behavior.  I really still had that on my mind, very definitely.  And I thought, "Well, I'd probably better get a PhD in sociology." So even though I hadn't had such great experience with the sociology courses at JC and Albion, I went over to the University of Chicago, that had a reputation of being the leading graduate school in sociology at that time, to explore in their PhD program.

And as luck would have it, I was interviewed by a member of the faculty who I only saw that one time.  I really have not heard anything from him since.  But he really was -- I was so fortunate to run into this guy.  He was a guy named [Berlig Cardoner?].  And it turns out he had been -- he got his doctorate in sociology at Harvard, and he was a junior fellow.  And was with a group of junior fellows that were led by -- Henderson was very much on the scene there.  He got Mayo into the discussions with the junior fellows about how we're going to understand human behavior.  And that was all flavored with Dean Donham's interest in getting Mayo into Harvard Business School to explore a fresh, you know, human behavior, in a multidisciplinary way.  And that was the key word these people were working on.

And so he said, 'Well, why do you want to get a degree in sociology back at the University of Chicago?" And I said, "Well, I really want to understand human behavior, and I figure this is the best way to get at it, and I'm interested in the application side." I said, "Maybe we should call it applied sociology.  I'm not sure that's the right word for it."

And he listened to me, and he said, "I don't think this is the place to come." He said, "You know, I" -- he said, "You got a head start at HBS." I said, "Yeah, three terms.  I'm going to go back and get my fourth." He said, "Hmm, yeah, you're pretty lucky." He said, "They're going to start a multidisciplinary doctoral program in human behavior.  And they've been laying the groundwork for this.  I mean, people like Mayo, and Roethlisberger and Henderson." He said, "I heard about that.  I know about it because I was out there." He says, "Why don't you go back and try for that? I think that may be where you ought to go to get your multidisciplinary training." And I said, "Wow." I mean, that -- talk about luck. I mean, that was just sheer serendipity.  I don't know how I ever ran into it.  It never occurred to me that that would be where I would want to continue my graduate education.

Maybe this is my Midwest orientation, but I thought Chicago was the best place to go.  And this guy talked me out of Chicago and back to Harvard.  And so when I came back to do my fourth term I very much had this on my mind, and I right away started exploring, "How do you get into the doctoral program? What's this new thing all about? Is it really there, and can I get involved?"

And so I found out.  That's why I took as an extra course this required course in Ad Prac, because I figured, "Well, that's sort of part of this, and I'd better get that course under my belt, and see what they're doing." And I began to go around knocking on doors while I was finishing up. Because I found out that in order to get in the doctoral program the first step is to get to be a research assistant.  That isn't the way it is now.  Because if you are working for the school as a research assistant, then it would be perfectly understandable why you'd want to get in the doctoral program, but the other way around.  And the way you got to be a research assistant was being tapped by some member of the faculty who had picked you out of the MBA class and said, "Well, how would you like to stay around and work for me here?"

And nobody had been tapping on me, so I went around knocking on doors.  And I started out with Selekman.  I talked to Roethlisberger, I talked to Lombard.  And they were all very nice, but they said they didn't have any openings and thank you just the same.  So I thought, "Well, I still want to do this."

Cecil Fraser was getting organized to teach a course in business and government.  And they said, "He's looking for an RA." So I went to see Fraser.  And I can't remember much about the interview, but we got along all right.  And he said he would like to have me work for him.  So I thought, well, that gives me a foot in the door.  And I readily agreed.  And but just to move the story along, when I finished and got my MBA, I was scheduled to go to work for him about a week later.  And I went in there on a Monday morning to report for duty, and I was told that -- his secretary told me that she had heard I was coming in, and she had bad news for me that, unfortunately, Cecil Fraser had died over the weekend of a heart attack. And since I didn't know him, I didn't have too much personal feeling about it, but I certainly knew my plan was kind of on the rocks.

So they referred me back to the personnel office.  And I guess the word must have gone out among the faculty, "We've hired this guy as an RA, but his assignment has dried up in a hurry.  Is anybody interested?" And Frank Folts, bless his heart, spoke up and said, well, he might be able to use my talents.  And he was in charge of the production group at that time -- area, and was developing case material for their required course.

And so I worked for him for about six months, and that was very good training.  He really drilled me on how to write a case, improve my English exposition, among other things.  And I wrote a lot of cases for him.  I mean, he was really a taskmaster.  He had all these leads lined up, and he said, "You're going out to this factory, and you're going to come back with this kind of a case." So I said okay, and I'd go out there and scoop up a bunch of facts, and talk to some people, and come back and piece it together.  And he'd look at a draft, and get right back to me with ways to improve it, and I'd work on it some more.

So it was a -- I think that our standards of -- I don't know how to put it, but we turned out a lot more cases in those days for a -- in a given month, or year, however you look at it, than people do these days, probably because they weren't as good cases.  [Laughs] But we were expected to have a high level of productivity.  So that went on.

And meanwhile I let the people in the -- it was now being called "Human Relations," but a little bit also the word "Organizational Behavior" was beginning to creep into it—I let these folks know that I was still around, and still interested in switching over, and I told Frank Folts that right at the beginning.  So that fall I switched over, and started to work for the -- RA as administrative practice courses under the guidance of George Lombard and Ed Learned, who was course head at that time.